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2655 Views 23 Replies Latest reply: Jan 30, 2015 5:59 PM by ptc-1288854 RSS
FrankS.Schiavone Platinum 1,381 posts since
Sep 8, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 9, 2012 9:35 AM

So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

I have "dm_overwrite_contents_on_update" set to "yes", and an overwrite in Intralink worked just fine, every time......yet now in W/C update doesn't actually do anything?  Huh?

  • ptc-4108908 Copper 6 posts since
    Mar 12, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 12, 2012 9:08 PM (in response to FrankS.Schiavone)
    Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

    We experienced the same problem in Windchill 10 now. But for 9.1 update was working. Hope this can be corrected.

  • ptc-1887275 Copper 1 posts since
    Nov 2, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 22, 2012 1:38 PM (in response to FrankS.Schiavone)
    Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

    Hi

     

    The definition of the Update action in Windchill differs from Pro/INTRALINK. In Windchill you use the Update action in order to update out-of-date objects, i.e. retrieve a later version of an object to the workspace from commonspace. E.g. you have version 1.4 (A.4) in the workspace and there's a 1.5 (A.5) version in commonspace. The Update action will overwrite the 1.4 version with the 1.5 version. With the dm_overwrite_contents_on_update preference you can set the default behaviour when you have modified the 1.4 version using continue. If it is set to Yes you will overwrite the modification made to the 1.4 version. If it is set to No you will keep your changes but they will have been made to the 1.5 version. E.g if the 1.4 version is a simple extrude. You have modified the 1.4 version using continue, adding a hole.The 1.5 version contains the simple extrude and a round. If you use Update and have the dm_overwrite_contents_on_update preference set to No you would have the 1.5 version in the workspace with the extrude and the hole without the round (i.e. you have overwitten whats in the commonspace). If you check it out and check it in the 1.5 version would be the extrude+hole and not the extrude+round.

     

    The action to overwrite modified content in the workspace (made by you) is Add (read Add to workspace). E.g. you have the 1.4 version in the workspace and you have made modifications to it using continue. You can deselect the Reuse content in target workspace or go to the Advanced tab, select the objects and click Download. I would suggest that you go to the Advanced tab so that you can decide what objects to overwrite and what objects to reuse. E.g. if you use the Add action on an assembly the dependencies set to required will overwrite all modifications made to all parts if you deselect the Reuse content in target workspace check box.

     

    Hope this helps.

     

    /Martin

     

    The

    • ptc-2972784 Copper 5 posts since
      Jun 26, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 13, 2015 5:45 PM (in response to ptc-1887275)
      Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

      Martin,

      In Windchill (pdm essentials), we've been trying to change the default setting to download the latest from the commonspace however whenever I do an update it always defaults to reuse, we've set the reuse option to no as seen below:

      Capture1.JPG

      I've done this at the coorg and wcadmin level and it persists with the default of reuse:

      Capture.JPG

       

      Is there another setting that is overriding this? 

       

      We've seen some instances where people use the "continue" option instead of "checkout" and then make some changes and save them in their workspace, they then do an update and think that all the latest and greatest has been downloaded and theyre good to go.  They then check out/check in and the changes they made before checking out are then checked in.  this has led to lost work and wasted time.  If we could either remove the "continue" option and force a "checkout" or delete "locally modified" content, we'd be a lot better off.

       

      Any help is greatly appreciated.

      • ptc-2011609 Bronze 45 posts since
        Aug 26, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 14, 2015 6:04 AM (in response to ptc-2972784)
        Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

        Marc,  (Glad to see you spell it correctly....) 

         

        Try selecting the objects and then using the Add to Workspace command, there should be an icon for it in the icon bar.  You will need to uncheck the "Reuse Content From Target Workspace" option.

         

        That should download a fresh copy of the objects to the workspace, replacing the modified ones.

         

        Confusing as he!! I know,  not sure who that made sense to...

         

        -marc

        • ptc-2972784 Copper 5 posts since
          Jun 26, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 19, 2015 12:38 PM (in response to ptc-2011609)
          Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

          -EDIT-

           

          Marc,

          Thanks for the reply, it appears that it just took a while for my changes to take affect. This morning it was no longer an option to reuse content during an update

          Marc

          • ptc-2972784 Copper 5 posts since
            Jun 26, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jan 19, 2015 12:50 PM (in response to ptc-2972784)
            Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

            Unfortunately my changes did not *entirely* take affect - if i hit update in a Firefox based windchill session, there is no option to reuse content and it downloads the latest from the server commonspace.  This is what I want.  However, if I hit update in the embedded browser within Creo, the default action is to still reuse content - I have to manually tell it to download most recent from the server.  This is NOT what I want. 

             

            While I understand the difference and implications and I can probably remember to use the correct settings, I cant expect that all the other CAD Authors using the software will.  Does anyone know why the embedded Creo browser would act any differently than a Firefox session of Windchill?

             

            Also, I did place the suggested parameter into my config file dm_overwrite_contents_on_update set as YES and that made it so that when I update an assembly from within Creo (not a browser) it does download latest from the commonspace.  Thanks for that Martin.

             

            Any suggestions to fix this would be much appreciated, I know there's a lot of issues with Windchill but I'd like to focus on fixing the issues.

             

            Marc

  • ptc-4108908 Copper 6 posts since
    Mar 12, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 9, 2012 11:22 PM (in response to FrankS.Schiavone)
    Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

    Frank,

     

    When the update applet appears, click on the download icon to use the file in the commonspace.

  • hammerhead Copper 2 posts since
    Jul 25, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2012 6:50 AM (in response to FrankS.Schiavone)
    Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

    Frank,

     

    Why would someone decide to redefine the meaning of "update" to something else?  Update doesn't mean update anymore.  What were they thinking?  Someday I'm going to meet one of these programmers and maybe we'll be able to come to an understanding.  I have never seen a program so unintuitive.

    • LoriSood PTC Employee 385 posts since
      Mar 23, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 16, 2015 7:43 AM (in response to FrankS.Schiavone)
      Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

      Hi Frank,

       

      If you are seeing inconsistent behavior with the Update and Add to Workspace functionality or with the config.pro options used in conjunction with Windchill then that should be investigated by PTC. Were cases ever opened for this?

       

      In general, Update should update out-of-date objects (i.e. there is a newer version on the server because someone else checked it in while the user had it in their workspace). Add to Workspace should let you bring in other non-out-of-date files, where you can either reuse the content already in the workspace or overwrite it. Workspace synchronize will update metadata changes (lifecycles, etc.) from the server.

       

      If that's not happening then it would be good to investigate the use cases you are seeing to figure out why.

      • ptc-4693091 PTC Community Champion 1,054 posts since
        Sep 13, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Jan 16, 2015 10:49 AM (in response to LoriSood)
        Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

        Windchill works great if you are a content consumer. A content consumer can freely delete workspaces as there is nothing they need in them and create new ones to load the currently desired information.

         

        In a collaborative content creation environment, Windchill is frequently a hassle.

         

        While I understand there needs to be a lot of redesign to do so, content creators need a system that pushes changes, not waiting for participants to pull them. That is, if I'm working on a complicated assembly and someone else on the team checks in a new version of a part that's in that assembly, then Windchill should push that update automatically to  all the Workspaces that item is in and the active Workspace should flag Creo that a new version of the part should be loaded into session.

         

        This means part files and meta-data.

         

        Flagging is required for those working on As-Stored data, but that could also be handled with a "Don't Update" flag on the Workspace.

         

        Instead, in a team environment, Windchill withholds new information unless specifically requested, leaving a pie-in-the-face / rug pulling situation. This is especially true for family table management where Windchill won't automatically gather (at least through 9.x) all the members of a table for Update that are in the Workspace. Instead it's like HAL 9000, "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that," followed by a lengthy separate search for all the individual family table members because Windchill isn't programmed to update the instances when the generic alone is chosen.

         

        Another place for confusion is where an unwanted change is made.

         

        The choices are Update and Add. In Intralink, where a lot of people started, Update would overwrite the Workspace version with the Commonspace version, discarding unwanted changes. This is not the same behaviour in Windchill, causing no end of problems for people during their learning transition period.

         

        There should be a clearly defined operation, like "Restore" that would take modified items and restore them with the Commonspace configuration. Software developers may love overloading operators, but humans don't do so well and benefit from clear differences in descriptors and vocabulary that doesn't change meaning.

        • LoriSood PTC Employee 385 posts since
          Mar 23, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Jan 23, 2015 2:17 PM (in response to FrankS.Schiavone)
          Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

          Frank,

           

          As I mentioned earlier, if you're seeing inconsistent behavior it should be investigated by PTC via a techincal support case, and the functionality regarding update should be the same across the board (i.e. only update objects marked as out-of-date). I tried looking up your past cases, but didn't see any in the list that looked to be related to update functionality. Do you recall case number(s) for this? Were reasons provided for the behavior you were seeing?

          • SteveShaw PTC Employee 45 posts since
            Jun 7, 2005
            Currently Being Moderated
            Jan 27, 2015 7:27 AM (in response to LoriSood)
            Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

            Frank,

             

            Lori is correct.  If there are specific scenarios or data sets that you are finding where the Update action is not responding as expected cases need to be filed with technical support so that these may be evaluated and addressed by PTC R&D.

             

            Thanks,

             

            Steve

              • BuddyHudson Silver 235 posts since
                Apr 13, 2007
                Currently Being Moderated
                Jan 30, 2015 2:33 PM (in response to FrankS.Schiavone)
                Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

                Frank,

                 

                I so feel your pain. I am a long time Pro/E/Creo user since the early 90s, and now I administer a fairly large group of engineers using Creo 2.0, and Windchill 10.1 M020. It has been rough since Windchill came along. PTC offers system and business courses which cover nothing about how to truly manage and troubleshoot the system. I won't even get started on tech calls right now....I am not a JAVA programmer neither am I a DBA both of which seem to be a prerequisite for administering this system. There are some guys in the community who seems to know quite a bit about it, and not sure where they got there training. Just wanted to say that I empathize with you on this issue, and I wish more people would make more noise about it of just sitting back and taking it. My company division, not to mention the whole corporation as a whole pays TONS of money in maintenance, but there is no benefit. I have been trying to work through an upgrade for over 3 months now....still have not succeeded.

                 

                Buddy

                • ptc-1288854 Gold 161 posts since
                  Jan 19, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Jan 30, 2015 5:59 PM (in response to BuddyHudson)
                  Re: So, why doesn't "update" actually WORK?

                  @Bryant we have spent into the hundreds of thousands of dollars (not including the maintenance and software) and more than 4 years in getting our Windchill system to work the way we wanted.  At first we tried just having CAD admins do it with help from IT, but as you are finding, it is not possible.  We quickly found that there is no one at PTC who understands how it works holistically.  They can offer support on specific details, but we found we didn't even know what questions to ask.

                   

                  Everything requires customization from simply getting correct mass data out of Creo (yes, at this tme it still doesn't do this out of the box) to exporting useable bills of materials.  You essentially get a framework and options that do things that companies might need, in a terrible interface, and you have to customize it to do something useful for your company.

                   

                  We tried hiring consultants to configure it, but that only got us part way.  Finally, we ended up hiring a seasoned Windchill administrator, who previously worked at a well known Windchill integration company.  That's when all of the pieces finally fell into place.

                   

                  Now we have a fairly robust production system and a stage system to try out upgrades.

                   

                  The initial quote we got from PTC to upgrade from Intralink to Windchill was $50K; in reality it is an order of magnitude higher and you'll need to hire at least 1 person dedicated to getting it configured and keeping it running and nothing else.  You'll also need other people who can support java, system building, network monitoring, etc.  And you need the entire company to be dedicated to using it and working out the bugs.  It also requires that your processes are well defined and you have a clear plan on how you want to use it.

                   

                  I would say that customers who want to undertake a move to Windchill should expect to spend half a million dollars, minimum, for a small enterprise.

                   

                  If you need help, PTC will only lead you to frustration.  Instead, contact the following companies who helped us immensely:


                  Fishbowl Solutions

                  http://www.fishbowlsolutions.com/index.htm

                   

                  Datafrond

                  http://www.datafrond.com/

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