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  • KevinBradberry Diamond 307 posts since
    Jun 7, 2010

    Can a GUI be designed that all users--not just the majority of users, but the new, the old, the experienced & the amateured--agree is the best interface?  You must agree the adage that "you can't please everyone". Because this is true, if you want a strategy that can approach pleasing everyone, then you have to offer custimization options.

     

    The best of both worlds would be to design a GUI that:

    1. The majority of current users vote on as the best
    2. And, also offer unlimited customization (or as much as your software programmers can work into the code) of the GUI.
  • J1SRC Bronze 28 posts since
    Aug 30, 2006

    I agree with you Frank 110%.

     

    I was just letting you  know that I think you will happier using Creo's drawing package vs. WF5. With that being said, I personally think WF4 UI is faster for me but I can't stay there for ever. So I decided to move on to Creo.

     

         I know PTC is trying to kick the "learning curve" problem that has been hanging over their heads for ever. Its true that it takes a good amount of time to become a "proficient" ProE user. For the most part PTC has done a good job easing this pain. But there is only so much you can simplify. I have always stood behind ProE for the simple fact that its customizable and there are always alternate routes to the same problem. It may not be an easy task but this is what sets it appart from the other packages. As a 10+ year user I am not pleased that PTC forces a beginer UI on sessoned professionals. Keep it a simple customizable UI (i.e. tool bars that can be parked anywhere that I choose and are accessable any time I need them).

  • James62 Platinum 596 posts since
    Jan 22, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    107. Feb 16, 2012 11:55 AM (in response to J1SRC)
    Re: WF5 GUI.......Like?  Love?  Hate?  Indifferent?

    Thank you for your customization UI file Randy.

     

    Restrictions in drawing mode went to hell and right mouse button menu acts just perfectly.

     

    There seems to be bunch of new (old) commands I don't quite know about.

     

    I really wonder how could PTC burry all of this stuff.

     

    This setup looks really promising. I might try to make some progress with creating more mapkeys now. So far I was trying to figure out what I really need from Creo. Theres alot I didn't have a chance to try it seems.

     

    Lets look forward to that this customization file will work in Creo 2.0 the same way it does in Creo 1.0

     

    Thanks alot again.

  • J1SRC Bronze 28 posts since
    Aug 30, 2006

    All,

    Comment on my UI file.

     

    I didn't set up the ribbon for assembly mode so it may look blank. Didn't know that removing the std groups from the others would affect teh assembly mode. The quick fix is to open ribbon customization while in Assembly mode and place a checkmark in all of the standard groups. Then re-save the configuration.

     

    When I get a chance I will fix it and repost...

     

    Randy

  • FrankS.Schiavone Platinum 1,390 posts since
    Sep 8, 2011

    True, you can't please everyone, but this is flat bad.  I challenge anyone to work in Creo dwg mode as fast as I can in WF4.  Period.  No matter how you slice it, you must keep moving your mouse from the field of the dwg to the dreaded ribbon and back.  Assuming you remember what tab the command you really want is in.  I've had some models made in Creo that I have to work on in dwg mode, and dread it every time.  I've used it for weeks now, and still hate it.  It's flat not getting any better.  Like I said, for many years I eagerly awaited the next revision.  Now I flat dread it.  I mean, what's next?

     

    I've been using the ribbon in Excel and Word since it came out, and it STILL ***.  I still struggle with finding commands.  Bad is just bad, no matter how new it is.

     

    If I can completely redo the GUI, that's better, but why should I have to waste my time doing it?  Every minute I spend doing what should have been done by PTC is a minute I can't spend on my work.  How is that "more productive"?

  • J1SRC Bronze 28 posts since
    Aug 30, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    110. Feb 17, 2012 10:31 AM (in response to James62)
    Re: WF5 GUI.......Like?  Love?  Hate?  Indifferent?

    Jakub, Which icons are different than yours? It might be that my WF4 icons are ordered a bit differently as we don't use the box stock UI.

     

         To be honest as i was going thru the commands I said the same thing. I'd be willing to bet 60% of the icons I have never used myself or very little. When I tryed this I didn't think I would be posting it to the world. I was just trying to show that it is possible to make it behaive like a pulldown list.

     

    Randy

  • James62 Platinum 596 posts since
    Jan 22, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    111. Feb 18, 2012 2:17 AM (in response to J1SRC)
    Re: WF5 GUI.......Like?  Love?  Hate?  Indifferent?

    hi Randy,

     

    You are right. I am not saying I will use all of these new (old) commands right away or even maybe I never will. Who knows? I am just trying to point out that by this drastic change of customization of icons PTC is like trying to tell how people should use the software.

     

    I have never had a chance to use WF4 and I have only done one not so complicated design in WF5. Creo Parametric 1.0 is my first real experience with PTC design softwares. I should keep my mouth shut on that matter then. I've noticed that there is a list of all commands inside the Creo setup and also list of commands that aren't in ribbon so the hidden like commands are easy to find.

     

    Its just interesting to me to see sort of different setup. Might be good to learn something new.

     

    Btw Randy, I have noticed that the offset function in your setup is some soft of different command from offset that is in default UI in Creo model tab. It seems to be some sort of analysis thing I was too not aware of it's existance till now.

     

    Jakub

  • J1SRC Bronze 28 posts since
    Aug 30, 2006

    Hi Jakub,

         I most likely pulled the wrong offset function in the list to the new ribbon. One thing that I noticed is that there are multiple commands with the same name in the commands list to pick from and some don't have an icon to differentiate between them. The only way to find out what it does is to hover over the command in the list and read the popup description. I reposted a second version yesterday and I think I fixed what I found. I don't remember the specific one you found so I don't know if its fixed or not. When I get back on Tuesday I'll check it out.

     

    Randy

  • J1SRC Bronze 28 posts since
    Aug 30, 2006

    Hi Raphael,

         Previous versions always had a main menu at the top for commands and a customizable area below. In Creo the main menu is not there anymore and the ribbon takes the place of the customizable area. I noticed in Creo if you remove a command from the ribbon there isn't a way to access it unless you reenter the ribbon customization and add it back in. Is this intended functionality or is there anouther way that I missed?

     

    Thanks...Randy

  • J1SRC Bronze 28 posts since
    Aug 30, 2006

    Jakub & All,

         In the last version of the UI file that I posted I picked the wrong "Offset" icon by mistake. I corrected the UI file and reposted.

     

    http://communities.ptc.com/docs/DOC-2561

     

    Thanks Jakub.

     

    Let me know if you find anything else...Randy

  • redav Copper 8 posts since
    Mar 4, 2010

    I have yet to find anything I like about the new GUI, especially in the drawing mode.

  • FrankS.Schiavone Platinum 1,390 posts since
    Sep 8, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    116. Feb 23, 2012 6:38 AM (in response to redav)
    Re: WF5 GUI.......Like?  Love?  Hate?  Indifferent?

    .....exactly the reason I've decided to stay on WF4 Greg.....  I'm losing far too much time fighting the ribbon to make it worthwhile for me.  If I was going to work that slow......I might as well be on Solidworks..... 

  • BrianMartin Diamond 1,305 posts since
    Feb 1, 2011

    Wow Frank... look at this thread... nearly 15,000 views. That's more than everything I've written since I started posting combined.

     

    This is going to end up as one of the most popular topics. For better or worse, this thread really digs into problems with the interface. Hopefully it leads to improvements and a more robust, customizable user interface.

     

    Nothing additional to add... just noticing how many hits this gets... nice work.

  • GrahameWard Gold 329 posts since
    Nov 27, 2006

    I had a petition up for PTC to "Remove the Ribbon" but I think it died due to lack of interest nd about 8 signatures.

     

    Perhaps it should be "Remove the Tabs" rather than "Remove the Ribbon".

  • FrankS.Schiavone Platinum 1,390 posts since
    Sep 8, 2011

    Hey Grahame, I signed it!    I hope this topic helps PTC see the light.

     

     

     

    Well Brian, from what I see, the GUI is almost universally hated.  So, if me being a loud-mouthed thorn in their side get's them back on the path to legible, easy-to-use GUI's, then I'll be happy and start using the version that incorporates them.

     

    Like I've said numerous times, I've been and am still a big supporter.....of the older and better versions.  Also, I've been a fan of the capabilities, and simply feel the GUI, which we must unfortunately use to GET to the capabilities, is hamstringing us.

     

    I hope I've helped.....though I'm sure PTC would never acknowledge it...... 

     

    But, don't kid yourself Brian, you do such nice work here.  Well thought out, very detailed, easy to understand.  Maybe you should design the GUI for PTC? 

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