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2279 Views 20 Replies Latest reply: Sep 3, 2006 12:00 AM by ptc-1368288 RSS
JosephA.Rybczyk Copper 37 posts since
Aug 22, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

Aug 22, 2006 12:00 AM

Inverse Sine Function

Using Rads, the calculus book gives the inverse sign function, sin^-1 0 = 0 as part of a proof. In Mathcad this would be sin(0)^-1 = 0 or alternately, (1/(sin(0)) = 0.

If I input this into my scientific calculator using the asin function it shows the formula as, sin^-1 0 and gives the result, 0 as in the book, but when I key the equation into Mathcad I get an error. I.e., division by zero.

What am I missing?

Also, is there a way to show actual Mathcad examples in this forum?

Joseph A. Rybczyk
  • ptc-1368288 Copper 15,155 posts since
    Nov 15, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 22, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to JosephA.Rybczyk)
    Inverse Sine Function
    "In Mathcad this would be sin(0)^-1 = 0 or alternately, (1/(sin(0)) = 0.

    ____________________

    The inverse of sin(x) is asin(x) [for arcsin(x)].

    Search for "Inverse Function" in this collab (maybe InverseFunction ?) there is wealth of work sheets (11.2a) ready to use .



    jmG
  • A.Non Diamond 10,133 posts since
    May 11, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 22, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to JosephA.Rybczyk)
    Inverse Sine Function
    On 8/22/2006 11:47:50 AM, Rybczyk wrote:
    >Using Rads, the calculus book
    >gives the inverse sign

    You mean the inverse sine function.

    >function, sin^-1 0 = 0 as part
    >of a proof. In Mathcad this
    >would be sin(0)^-1 = 0 or
    >alternately, (1/(sin(0)) = 0.

    No, it wouldn't. sin^-1(x) is a notation for the inverse sine of x. That's not the same thing as sin(x)^-1, which is the same as 1/sin(x). In Mathcad, type asin(x). You can also get the notation you are referring to, although it's more trouble. See the attached worksheet.

    >If I input this into my
    >scientific calculator using
    >the asin function it shows the
    >formula as, sin^-1 0 and gives
    >the result, 0 as in the book,
    >but when I key the equation
    >into Mathcad I get an error.
    >I.e., division by zero.
    >
    >What am I missing?

    Sin(0)=0. Therefore 1/sin(0) gives you an error.

    >Also, is there a way to show
    >actual Mathcad examples in
    >this forum?

    Yes. You can attach a Mathcad file. When you are posting a message, there is a check box at the top for "Attach file".

    Richard
    Attachments:
  • ValeryOchkov Platinum 6,036 posts since
    Sep 26, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to ptc-1368288)
    Inverse Function
    Attachments:
    • A.Non Diamond 10,133 posts since
      May 11, 2010
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to ValeryOchkov)
      Inverse Function
      What's your point? The fact that some functions are multivalued has nothing to do with whether the notation asin and arcsin mean the same thing.

      Richard
    • TomGutman Silver 10,537 posts since
      Oct 22, 2006
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to ValeryOchkov)
      Inverse Function
      The sine function is not injective, hence it does not have an inverse function. The inverse of the sine function is a relation, sometimes called a multivalued function (although if you look at the definition of a function that is an oxymoron). The arc sine function, notated in Mathcad as asin, is the principle value of the inverse sine and is a function. But it is not the inverse function to the sine function (which does not exist), as it satisfies only one of the two conditions for an inverse function. As you have domonstrated in your picture.

      � � � � Tom Gutman
  • A.Non Diamond 10,133 posts since
    May 11, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to ValeryOchkov)
    Inverse Sine Function
    If you want to split hairs, from Mathworld:

    "The inverse sine is the multivalued function sin^(-1)z (Zwillinger 1995, p. 465), also denoted arcsin(z) (Abramowitz and Stegun 1972, p. 79; Harris and Stocker 1998, p. 307; Jeffrey 2000, p. 124), that is the inverse function of the sine. The variants Arcsin(z) (e.g., Bronshtein and Semendyayev, 1997, p. 69) and Sin^(-1)z are sometimes used to refer to explicit principal values of the inverse sine, although this distinction is not always made (e.g,. Zwillinger 1995, p. 466). Worse yet, the notation arcsin(z) is sometimes used for the principal value, with Arcsin(z) being used for the multivalued function (Abramowitz and Stegun 1972, p. 80). Note that in the notation sin^(-1)z (commonly used in North America and in pocket calculators worldwide), sin(z) is the sine and the superscript -1 denotes the inverse function, not the multiplicative inverse."

    asin is just a variant of arcsin used in some programming languaes, including Mathcad.

    Richard
    • ptc-1368288 Copper 15,155 posts since
      Nov 15, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to A.Non)
      Inverse Sine Function
      Richard,

      The matter is not splitting hairs.

      My interpretation was like Valery,
      i.e: InverseFunction for "inversing a Function"

      What the collab wanted ?

      1. InverseFunction ?
      2. f(x)^-1 ?

      I bet most collab had interpreted "InverseFunction"

      f(x)^-1 is rather trivial and primitive for a collab with years of Mathcad .
      That he wanted a user definition is another story.

      jmG

      • A.Non Diamond 10,133 posts since
        May 11, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to ptc-1368288)
        Inverse Sine Function
        On 8/23/2006 10:06:39 AM, jmG wrote:
        >Richard,
        >
        >The matter is not splitting
        >hairs.

        In this context it is. Joseph just wanted to know why sin(x)^-1 does not give the same result as sin^-1(x). The answer to that is just a question of math notation. The fact that the inverse function can be considered to be multivalued or only valid over it's principle values is irrelevant to the question. Drawing a distinction between the notaions asin and arcsin is certainly splitting hairs. Especially when the distinction is not correct.

        Richard
  • ptc-1368288 Copper 15,155 posts since
    Nov 15, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to JosephA.Rybczyk)
    Inverse Sine Function
    "Richard, you have answered my question"
    ____________________

    ... as a "user definition" = YES
    ... as the InverseFunction = NO

    and that kind of user definition, you should reject without pulling anything off your head . Have you done some search in this collab ?

    jmG
    Attachments:
  • ptc-1368288 Copper 15,155 posts since
    Nov 15, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to ptc-1368288)
    Inverse Sine Function
  • ptc-1368288 Copper 15,155 posts since
    Nov 15, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to JosephA.Rybczyk)
    Inverse Sine Function
    On 8/23/2006 10:34:20 AM, Rybczyk wrote:
    >Richard,
    >
    >It seems it is not quite as simple as it first appeared to be. Take a look at the attachment. I apparently have stumbled on an area of Mathcad that can stand improvement.

    I don't intend to pursue this matter any further on the Mathcad forum, but I will use great care when dealing with such convention issues in the
    future.
    >
    >Joseph A. Rybczyk
    ___________________

    COMMENTS:

    1. respect conventions = godd idea.
    2. follow trig rules = is better idea (in your red case)
    3. pursue the issue = up to you (often we help)

    I have a full sheets of those things, but hesitate to pass as too many use tricks to make formulas in papers not reproducible by non "Mathcader chevron"




    jmg



    Attachments:
  • A.Non Diamond 10,133 posts since
    May 11, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to JosephA.Rybczyk)
    Inverse Sine Function
    True, the prefix operator form does not work for all trig functions. Quite annoying. This has been commented on before, and Mathsoft is aware of it. Hopefully it will get fixed at some point in te future.

    As far as sin^n(x) goes, n=-1 is a special case. sin^2(x) means the same thing as sin(x)^2. It is an unfortunate quirk of math notation that sin^-1(x) is not the same as sin(x)^-1.

    Richard
  • ptc-1368288 Copper 15,155 posts since
    Nov 15, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to TomGutman)
    Inverse Function
    "The sine function is not injective, hence it does not have an inverse function."
    ______________________

    Can't be more right !

    See Abramowitz:
    "Inverse Circular Functions"
    Definitions
    4.4.1
    4.4.2
    4.4.3

    jmG
  • ptc-1368288 Copper 15,155 posts since
    Nov 15, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 3, 2006 12:00 AM (in response to JosephA.Rybczyk)
    Inverse Sine Function
    On 9/3/2006 11:21:01 AM, Rybczyk wrote:
    >To all,
    >
    >After all of this, I found the
    >following at the end of the
    >book. (See attachment)
    >
    >
    >To jmG,
    >
    >What is the procedure you use
    >to post formulas directly to
    >the board?
    >
    >Joseph A. Rybczyk
    _______________________________

    The procedure is few seconds work:

    1. capture the equation
    2. reduce colors
    3. store in *.gif file
    4. attach the file

    To have it displayed, it follows a universal set of commands, on a new line type

    img src=/upload/Unknown189.gif

    that will display the corresponding image

    but you need two more keystrokes

    < in the front of img src ....
    and a closing > after terminating .gif

    This type of command will attach *.bmp, *.jpg, *.tif, *.png ... ?



    asin is the inverse of sin in the sense of reflection but asin has its own set of approximation found in Abramowitz "Inverse Circular functions"
    What you are doing is 1/sin(x) and asin(x) ,i.e: two different animals .

    Visit Wolfram.

    jmG

    ...
    Attachments:

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