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15973 Views 59 Replies Latest reply: Oct 16, 2010 11:28 AM by MikeArmstrong RSS
AlanStevens Platinum 1,242 posts since
Jun 8, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 3, 2010 1:43 AM

jmg

Mona,

 

I note that jmg has been disabled as a contributor to this forum.  I surmise that his recent "malicious bug" diatribe was a rant too far for some sensitive soul or other at PTC.

 

However, in spite of the occasional misguided bee in his bonnet and the often less than tactful way he expresses his views, jmg has contributed a lot, both to the old collaboratory and the current forum, helping many Mathcad users, old and new.

 

It's a weak Company that can't take criticism, even if that criticism is unjustified (especially if it is unjustified!).

 

I suggest you re-enable jmg.

 

Alan

  • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
    Dec 3, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2010 5:00 AM (in response to AlanStevens)
    Re: jmg
    However, in spite of the occasional misguided bee in his bonnet and the often less than tactful way he expresses his views, jmg has contributed a lot, both to the old collaboratory and the current forum, helping many Mathcad users, old and new.

    Alan,

     

    I 100% agree with you. Jean dedicated a lot of time on this forum and some of his worksheets where superb.

    It's a weak Company that can't take criticism, even if that criticism is unjustified (especially if it is unjustified!).

    Where does a company draw the line though??????

     

    PTC obviously wants "experts" to offer support of this forum, its a good way to display their product, but jean has been very frustrated since moving from the old forum.

     

    Mike

    • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
      Jun 1, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 3, 2010 10:49 AM (in response to MikeArmstrong)
      Re: jmg

      He's a reasonably intelligent kook, and I agree that what I've seen of his posts are basically in the categories of "helpful" and "ignore this."  I haven't seen any posts of his that warrant a disbarment.

       

      TTFN

      • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
        Dec 3, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 3, 2010 12:11 PM (in response to superres)
        Re: jmg
        He's a reasonably intelligent kook, and I agree that what I've seen of his posts are basically in the categories of "helpful" and "ignore this."  I haven't seen any posts of his that warrant a disbarment.

        The final straw might have been the discussion when Jean was suggesting his computer had been infected!

         

        Mike

  • AlvaroDíaz Silver 895 posts since
    Oct 5, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2010 11:15 AM (in response to AlanStevens)
    Re: jmg

    I'm pretty sure that before any action PTC staff have a large talk with Jean, and I'm sure too that the decission that they are taken after those talks are with large thinking about what directive could be taken. What I can say is if it is possible to just talk more to make the Jean return.

     

    Regards. Alvaro.

    • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
      Dec 3, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 3, 2010 12:13 PM (in response to AlvaroDíaz)
      Re: jmg
      What I can say is if it is possible to just talk more to make the Jean return.

      Alvaro,

       

      I agree, that if possible, I would like to Jean back on this site contributing.

       

      Mike

  • PhilipOakley Silver 2,084 posts since
    Feb 20, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2010 2:48 PM (in response to AlanStevens)
    Re: jmg

    Yes. Jean should not be locked out. Despite the fact that he doesn't like units the way the rest of us do.

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

     

    Philip

    • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
      Jun 1, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 4, 2010 4:15 PM (in response to PhilipOakley)
      Re: jmg

      I don't think it was the units thing that did him in; more likely, it was the ranting about bugs and virus-like bugs, etc.

       

      TTFN

    • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
      Dec 3, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 5, 2010 1:32 AM (in response to PhilipOakley)
      Re: jmg

      Yes. Jean should not be locked out. Despite the fact that he doesn't like units the way the rest of us do.

      Come on...... That was never the reason was it???

       

      Mike

      • PhilipOakley Silver 2,084 posts since
        Feb 20, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 5, 2010 1:52 AM (in response to MikeArmstrong)
        Re: jmg

        MIke Armstrong wrote:

         

        Yes. Jean should not be locked out. Despite the fact that he doesn't like units the way the rest of us do.

        Come on...... That was never the reason was it???

         

        Mike

        He just looked at things from a different Angle

         

        I also note that Tom G isn't bothering with the forum either.

         

        Philip

        • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
          Dec 3, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 5, 2010 2:15 AM (in response to PhilipOakley)
          Re: jmg

          He just looked at things from a different Angle

          Thats shocking!!!!

           

          I also note that Tom G isn't bothering with the forum either.

          Most notably from the more experienced users, its Tom and Stuart who are not bothering with this forum since the move.

           

          Mike

          • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
            May 11, 2010
            Currently Being Moderated
            Oct 5, 2010 10:27 AM (in response to MikeArmstrong)
            Re: jmg
            Most notably from the more experienced users, its Tom and Stuart who are not bothering with this forum since the move.

            Tom hasn't even logged in since the middle of Setpember. Stuart hasn't logged in since the middle of August!

            • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
              Dec 3, 2008
              Currently Being Moderated
              Oct 5, 2010 11:47 PM (in response to A.Non)
              Re: jmg

              Tom hasn't even logged in since the middle of Setpember. Stuart hasn't logged in since the middle of August!

              Why though - because the way the new site is structured?

               

              Mike

  • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
    May 11, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2010 10:25 AM (in response to AlanStevens)
    Re: jmg

    It's a weak Company that can't take criticism, even if that criticism is unjustified (especially if it is unjustified!).

    If people got banned from the forums simply for criticism than a lot of us, including me, would be gone. I suspect the line was crossed when it went from criticism to accusation. Those are quite different things.

      • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
        May 11, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 5, 2010 11:56 AM (in response to AlanStevens)
        Re: jmg
        If PTC found a post too objectionable they could delete it.

        They did the first time. Then Jean started another thread. Then Mona asked him to desist. He chose not to.

         

        Perhaps the moral of the story is that if PTC gives you two strong hints, then the ice that you are treading on is getting very thin!

         

        A blanket ban seems very heavy-handed.

        I have wondered if it's permanent, or just temporary. Others have been deleted from the Collaboratory in the past when they went too far (although always for rudeness, not for accusing PTC of doing such things as deliberately crashing users PCs) and I don't think they were ever restored.

         

        Maybe it's possible to come back with a new name. Son_of_jmG

    • Bronze 30 posts since
      May 6, 2008
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 6, 2010 9:05 AM (in response to A.Non)
      Re: jmg

      With Jean-Marie quite often it was a language thing - the way he phrased answers probably made sense in french but lost something in translation.

      It was (at times) amusing to watch the crossed swords as two combattants argued the same side of the coin...

      Or at least seperated by a gnats whatsit.

       

      Bottom line is that the forum & all the users that are the losers!

      No more input from JMG, Tom, Valery, Stuart ...

      How many man-years of experience do they represent, and so happy to pass on as much of it as they could.

       

      How can PTC (ever) replace that?

      • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
        Dec 3, 2008
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 6, 2010 9:10 AM (in response to AWesterman-disabled)
        Re: jmg

        How can PTC (ever) replace that?

        Simple answer. IT CANT!!!!

         

        I have seen Valery contributing on this site now and then. Not certain how much he contributed on the previous forum though.

         

        Mike

        • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
          Jun 1, 2007
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 6, 2010 9:19 AM (in response to MikeArmstrong)
          Re: jmg

          Valery's posting frequency had dropped considerably in the last couple of years, so possibly, he had a job change, or was too busy with his various book projects.

           

          Unclear about Tom and Stuart, although they were both active in the forums prior to the move.  It's also possible that they haven't seen anything worth commenting on.  Note that you can browse the forums without logging in, so they could just be lurking...

           

          TTFN

          • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
            May 11, 2010
            Currently Being Moderated
            Oct 6, 2010 9:34 AM (in response to superres)
            Re: jmg
            Valery's posting frequency had dropped considerably in the last couple of years, so possibly, he had a job change, or was too busy with his various book projects.

            I think it's because a new Russian Mathcad forum was created, and he spent a lot of time over there. I am not certain of that though.

             

            Unclear about Tom and Stuart, although they were both active in the forums prior to the move.

            Stuart's posting frequency had fallen off a lot before the move (it went up and down somwhat before that too). Tom's also fell off immediatley after the New Year, although he remained quite active. But Tom had commented in the past that he used to be active in the Compuserve forums and dropped them when they changed the format:

             

            http://collab.mathsoft.com/read?98967,20

             

            He's also made it clear he doesn't like these forums very much.

      • mzeftel Gold 2,704 posts since
        May 11, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 6, 2010 9:16 AM (in response to AWesterman-disabled)
        Re: jmg

        I'd like to reply to some of the concern expressed above. We received a number of complaints of abuse from other users about some of Jean's postings. I've deleted or edited the rudeness out of many of his posts over the past few years.

         

        We asked him countless times to refrain from rudeness to other users and did not get any response from him. He has been helpful to many users in the past, but could not refrain from attacks. The purpose of this community is not for people to engage in rants against each other. We did not take this step lightly, and delayed it for a number of weeks, trying to work things out with Jean.

         

        We're open to criticism and lively discussion, but not attacks on other users.

         

        Mona

         

        Mona Zeftel

        Mathcad Senior Technical Consultant

        PTC

        • f.kohlhepp Silver 97 posts since
          Sep 11, 2008
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 6, 2010 11:26 AM (in response to mzeftel)
          Re: jmg

          Mona Zeftel wrote:

           

          We asked him countless times to refrain from rudeness to other users and did not get any response from him. He has been helpful to many users in the past, but could not refrain from attacks. The purpose of this community is not for people to engage in rants against each other. We did not take this step lightly, and delayed it for a number of weeks, trying to work things out with Jean.

          Well

           

          Jean was abrasive, critical, rude, abrupt,           French

           

          We will miss him.

        • AlvaroDíaz Silver 895 posts since
          Oct 5, 2001
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 6, 2010 3:10 PM (in response to mzeftel)
          Re: jmg

          Mona Zeftel wrote:

           

          .... We received a number of complaints of abuse from other users about some of Jean's postings. I've deleted or edited the rudeness out of many of his posts over the past few years. ...

           

          I must to say two things: First one I'm to thanks for Mona for delete once one of that kind of posts. Second one, in the past years she delete two of my posts (one without much sense from my point of view, but the other I must to agree that it was right deleted).

           

          We did not take this step lightly, and delayed it for a number of weeks, trying to work things out with Jean.

           

          I'm sure that you do this, just not forget to try again and ... I don't know, just try again.

           

          Recently I post -again- a file where I take the derivative of an odesolve result. And miss that nobody scream-me that it is a bad practice, like Mr. Tom Gutman usually do, before showing how to do this in the hard but correct -in the numerical sense- way.

           

          If PTC community team have the specific user-traffic statics I think that can isolate cases that are not that evident like Tom, Stuart and email -but not spam- inviting to talk about they participacion here. For Tom, Stuart, Xavier, PaulW ... just notice that other members miss they participation. For cases like Valery shop days with 28 hr or more.

          .

          We're open to criticism and lively discussion, ...

           

          Must to confess that you are, more that one can think that an enterprise could be open to it.

                    The purpose of this community is not for people to engage in rants against each other. ...

           

          That's cool, but ... which is the purpuse? It's that hard to explain it that in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community try to find (Ctrl+F in the explorer) the word "purpose"; that's in the understand that for PTC isn't only make money, which could be the main purpose, but seems to be not the only one.

           

          Regards. Alvaro.

          • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
            Jun 1, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Oct 6, 2010 3:57 PM (in response to AlvaroDíaz)
            Re: jmg

            Ostensibly, per this site's home page, this is it's purpose:

            Showcase. Network. Inspire.

            Welcome to PlanetPTC Community - a destination for PTC customers and people who are passionate about product development. Register now to share your designs, connect with peers and publish your success stories.

             

            Obviously, there are unstated objectives, like:

            >  a way to unburden customer support by having other customers do the supporting

            >  a "me-too" thing, since other people and companies have discussion forums

            >  a way to collect information on what customers are ranting about, without getting involved in the actual rant

             

            TTFN

      • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
        May 11, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 6, 2010 9:27 AM (in response to AWesterman-disabled)
        Re: jmg
        No more input from JMG, Tom, Valery, Stuart ...

        That's true, but it's not new. Both Tom's and Stuart's (especially Stuart's) posts had fallen off before we were herded to the new forums. Valery used to post a lot more many years ago. Before Tom and Stuart even started posting (at least, to any great extent) there were Xavier and Robert. They drifted off for their own reasons, and it was a loss (especially in terms of writing user DLLs). Stuart and Tom appeared and it was a gain. Those are just a few of the more prominent names, but I can think of many others that have come and gone over the years. What happens from this point forward depends not only on the expertise that has disappeared, but on whether or not there is any new expertise that is going to appear (preferably, soon!).

        • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
          May 11, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 6, 2010 10:01 AM (in response to A.Non)
          Re: jmg

          It has occurred to me that I should add, as a positive example, that Alvaro is a relatively new addition. He has a really good understanding of math (better than mine, that's for sure) as well as Mathcad and several other CAS systems, and has contributed a lot recently. So you win some, you lose some.  Which is not to say the losses are painless, but they are only one side of the coin.

          • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
            Dec 3, 2008
            Currently Being Moderated
            Oct 7, 2010 12:03 AM (in response to A.Non)
            Re: jmg

            So you win some, you lose some.

            Exactly.

             

            We still have some excellent contributors to this site with vast amount of experience - Eden, Fred, Alan, yourself, Alvaro and Phillip

             

            With the help and guidance offered from the people above the average users can become more competent using Mathcad and offer more to the forum. The likes of Tom, Stuart and jmg all started somewhere.

             

            Mike

            • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
              Jun 1, 2007
              Currently Being Moderated
              Oct 7, 2010 7:02 AM (in response to MikeArmstrong)
              Re: jmg

              Reminds of a minor joke, man says, "Honey, I've reached the end of the Internet.  Now, what do I do?"  "Well, you can start by taking out the trash."

               

              In forums of this nature, there eventually arises a time when you've seen the same question 10, or even 100 times, and you think to yourself, "Again?"  At that point in time, you decide that it's time to move on.   I don't know if that's the case with the aforementioned gentlemen, but I've experienced it once myself on a different site.

               

              And perhaps, that was one of the lackings in the old site, as much beloved as it was.  There was no FAQ-like section where newbie, or common, questions could be referred.  So, a simple, easily searchable FAQ section might be needed here.

               

              TTFN

              • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
                Dec 3, 2008
                Currently Being Moderated
                Oct 7, 2010 7:20 AM (in response to superres)
                Re: jmg
                And perhaps, that was one of the lackings in the old site, as much beloved as it was.  There was no FAQ-like section where newbie, or common, questions could be referred.  So, a simple, easily searchable FAQ section might be needed here.

                I am right with you on that one.

                 

                The search feature in the old site was poor to say the least. The amount of times I got the "Word To Common" reply from my search was unreal. The search tool on this site is a massive improvement in my opinion. Even if a collab doesn't directly have the vocabulary to describe the problem, the search bar has a predictive text feature which helps greatly.

                 

                Mike

              • DanMarotta Platinum 633 posts since
                May 3, 2010
                Currently Being Moderated
                Oct 7, 2010 9:53 AM (in response to superres)
                Re: jmg

                Hi Eden,

                And perhaps, that was one of the lackings in the old site, as much beloved as it was.  There was no FAQ-like section where newbie, or common, questions could be referred.  So, a simple, easily searchable FAQ section might be needed here.

                Could this document serve as the FAQ section? It can be accessed by the Need Help link at the top of every page.

                 

                Also, if you perform a search on 'help' or 'faq,' you should receive a list of How-to documents related to navigating your way around the community.

                 

                -Dan

                • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
                  Jun 1, 2007
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Oct 7, 2010 11:10 AM (in response to DanMarotta)
                  Re: jmg

                  Dan,

                   

                  Something similar, possibly.  The topics would be more like:

                  >  Why are my physics calculations not working?

                  >  How can I iterate a Solve Block?

                   

                  There a bunch of relatively basic questions that pop up continually, and something like the Help section would possibly get some of the newbie questions answered off the bat.  Or at least, we could refer a poster to the existing FAQ answer.

                   

                  TTFN,

                  Eden

                  • DanMarotta Platinum 633 posts since
                    May 3, 2010
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Oct 7, 2010 12:01 PM (in response to superres)
                    Re: jmg

                    Eden,

                     

                    I would encourage you to start such a document to help out the newbies. Fire up a wiki document and leave it open for others to collaborate on it.

                     

                    I'd be more than happy to feature it prominently to make it easily accessible.

                     

                    -Dan

                    • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
                      May 11, 2010
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Oct 7, 2010 12:08 PM (in response to DanMarotta)
                      Re: jmg
                      Fire up a wiki document and leave it open for others to collaborate on it.

                      For my part, I wasn't thinking of a real wiki document. I was going to make it available to all to read (obviously; not much of a FAQ otherwise!) or comment on, but I was going to either limit those who could edit the document(s) and/or have the edited documents require approval before they were visible to the "public". With a pure wiki document it is far too likely that someone that does not know what they are doing will edit something that was written by someone that did!

                      • DanMarotta Platinum 633 posts since
                        May 3, 2010
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Oct 7, 2010 12:16 PM (in response to A.Non)
                        Re: jmg

                        I'll leave the permissioning in your capable hands. You obviously want contributors you trust that will make the "right" edits/additions.

                      • MikeArmstrong Diamond 4,144 posts since
                        Dec 3, 2008
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Oct 8, 2010 12:15 AM (in response to A.Non)
                        Re: jmg

                        Sounds like a good idea, but what topics will be included, to much to cover with one document.

                         

                        How about creating a thread so other collabs can fire ideas across.

                         

                        Mik

                        • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
                          May 11, 2010
                          Currently Being Moderated
                          Oct 8, 2010 4:13 AM (in response to MikeArmstrong)
                          Re: jmg
                          Sounds like a good idea, but what topics will be included, to much to cover with one document.

                          I can think of many topics. Range variables vs vectors. How to functionalize solve blocks. Many others. Yes, it would require mulitple documents.

                           

                          How about creating a thread so other collabs can fire ideas across.

                          A thread is not the right medium, because document access cannot be controlled in the right way. Only the poster can edit a document, but anyone can upload another document, even if it is wrong or irrelvent to a FAQ. A FAQ needs to have some level of control.

                           

                          I'm trying to figure out how to upload multiple documents to a document posting. That would be a better approach.

                           

                          It might be that we also want a thread, to discuss what would be in the FAQ, discuss (i.e. argue about!) particular worksheets, etc. But it would not actually be the FAQ.

                • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
                  May 11, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Oct 7, 2010 11:59 AM (in response to DanMarotta)
                  Re: jmg

                  Yes, I was thinking of setting up something like that in the Mathcad forum. But how can you add multiple documents to one document post? If I edit one of the documents I have posted the only option I get is to upload a new version of the existing file. I don't see any way to add another file.

              • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
                May 11, 2010
                Currently Being Moderated
                Oct 7, 2010 12:02 PM (in response to superres)
                Re: jmg
                In forums of this nature, there eventually arises a time when you've seen the same question 10, or even 100 times, and you think to yourself, "Again?"

                Yes, that is true. In fact, it happens a lot to me with these forums. A lot of the answers I give now are just hyperlinks to old threads. That certainly makes for less work, but it's not exactly exciting!

  • PhilipLeitch Copper 388 posts since
    May 8, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 7, 2010 6:11 PM (in response to AlanStevens)
    Re: jmg

    I'll put my 2 cents in.

     

    Firstly Jean reminded me of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory - no need to elaborate there I think.  It is a loss, but I heard a story once in an IT firm that relates to this and offers some hope.

     

    There was a team of 5 developers, one of which was clearly more tallented than the others.  The projects essentially rode on his back.  He knew that he could code rings around all the other developers put together and became very difficult to deal with.  He was frustrated that anything complicated came to him so his workload was through the roof and the other developers were frustrated that he was such a difficult person to work with.  He kept saying that they needed an entire team of "people who could program" (i.e. at his skill level), and they kept saying they needed a better way of working as a team.

     

    To everyone's surprise, the company let this "superstar" developer go.  That one key developer was snapped up by another firm and the team initially freaked out.  They hired another person to fill the space (although the other developers thought they should hire another 2 or 3 developers).  What happened was actually quite amazing.  Productivity increased!

     

    It turns out that those tasks that nobody else could do but the one guy had to be discussed as a group in order to resolve it, meaning that all the group was then capable of those tasks.  What's more, as the team worked out how to do all of the different tasks they became better problem solvers and better programmers in the end creating the team of "people who could program". With a more pleasant team environment everyone started working with eachother much more productively and actualy enjoyed their job.

     

    I think the same thing could happen here.

     

    For instance, many times I saw an interesting question fire through only to see someone had jumped in after a couple of minutes with the answer.  The dominance of a few who had the right answer immediately removed any chance for the forum to discuss the issue, formulate ideas and develop a consensus.  Nobody learnt anything - they just got answers.  What's more nobody got a chance to contribute an answer unless they happened to be logged in at a time that those key people weren't on.

     

    So what's going to happen now that JMG, Tom, Valery, Stuart post less or not at all?  Chances are that they will be very soarly missed and in the short term the community will be that much poorer.  But the community will keep going and in the long term may actually strengthen.

     

    As for Jean's frequently abrasive language - what about freedom of speach?  I love this quote from "The American President"

    "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free"."

    • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
      Jun 1, 2007
      Currently Being Moderated
      Oct 10, 2010 11:17 PM (in response to PhilipLeitch)
      Re: jmg

      Jean is apparently still alive and kicking, and claims no obvious communication between himself and PTC.  That's a different matter altogether, anyway.

       

      In any case, he reports something that is rather disturbing, which is that the email thread notifications apparently reveal our supposedly private email addresses.  I've not yet verified this, so it this is true, that is indeed a serious bug in the workings of this web forum.

       

      TTFN

      • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
        Jun 1, 2007
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 10, 2010 11:36 PM (in response to superres)
        Re: jmg

        test, just looking to see what the email notifications look like

        • SuperResolution Copper 1 posts since
          Oct 10, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 10, 2010 11:40 PM (in response to superres)
          Re: jmg

          OK, I confirmed by creating another account that subscribed to this thread.  So every posting by me goes out to ALL subscribers with my supposedly "hidden" email address.  THIS IS NOT RIGHT!  The whole point of hiding the email addresses is to minimize potential for spamming.  But with every posting, your email address is sent to anyone and everyone on the subcription list.  Bah, humbug!  Talk about Illuminati...

           

          TTFN

      • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
        May 11, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Oct 11, 2010 4:54 AM (in response to superres)
        Re: jmg

        They have known about this massive privacy hole for three months, but have obviously not fixed it. Here's a previous discussion on the topic that tells you how to stop this from happening:

         

        http://communities.ptc.com/message/148579#148579

        • DanMarotta Platinum 633 posts since
          May 3, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Oct 11, 2010 6:47 AM (in response to A.Non)
          Protect Your Privacy

          This blog details the steps you need to take to protect your privacy.

           

          Let's Talk About Privacy For A Second

          • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
            Jun 1, 2007
            Currently Being Moderated
            Oct 11, 2010 6:54 AM (in response to DanMarotta)
            Re: Protect Your Privacy

            Interesting, BUT WHY HASN'T IT BEEN FIXED?

             

            Given that we set the option to disable the display of our emails when we sign up, and we show a different display name in the threads as well as on our logins, isn't it a bit inane to shipout our email addresses to the world?

             

            What's the point of saying you protect our privacy, but you hide the display name change option until after the account is created, all the while creating the illusion of protecting the email address?

             

            TTFN

            • DanMarotta Platinum 633 posts since
              May 3, 2010
              Currently Being Moderated
              Oct 11, 2010 7:34 AM (in response to superres)
              Re: Protect Your Privacy

              Hi Eden,

               

              The steps provided is the fix. Your email address is no longer exposed for public consumption.

               

              -Dan

              • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
                Jun 1, 2007
                Currently Being Moderated
                Oct 11, 2010 9:36 AM (in response to DanMarotta)
                Re: Protect Your Privacy

                Dan,

                 

                You and I clearly disagree on what "fix"  means.  If it's something that I have to do, it's a "patch" at best, and more likely, it's merely a workaround.  So, please do not insult my intelligence by claiming the "fix" is something that I should have done or should have known about.  When I check the box that says to hide my email address, and my profile shows that my email address is hidden, I expect the system to hide my email address unless I specifically reveal it, and not because I didn't do some absurd procedure to change something that shouldn't have been set that way to begin with, particularly since the system never warns me about that.  This is the same approach that got Facebook and a number of other sites into legal trouble, because their default settings were contrary to their privacy policy.

                 

                A true fix would be to make the default emailed display name be the same display name that showed up in the registration process AND that showed up on every posting that I had on this site till now.

                 

                TTFN

                • DanMarotta Platinum 633 posts since
                  May 3, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Oct 11, 2010 10:00 AM (in response to superres)
                  Re: Protect Your Privacy

                  My intention was certainly not to insult your intelligence. And if it came across as such, my apologies.

                • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
                  May 11, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Oct 11, 2010 10:18 AM (in response to superres)
                  Re: Protect Your Privacy
                  This is the same approach that got Facebook and a number of other sites into legal trouble, because their default settings were contrary to their privacy policy.

                  Uh Oh! I can feel a bout of severe emotional stress coming on (perhaps even Post Traumatic Stress Disorder!) caused by an invasion of privacy. It happens that I could also do with a little extra money right now. A really huge amount of extra money would be OK too. Does anyone know a really mercenary, unscrupulous lawyer I can contact?

                  evil grin.gif

                  • mzeftel Gold 2,704 posts since
                    May 11, 2010
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Oct 11, 2010 12:29 PM (in response to A.Non)
                    Re: Protect Your Privacy

                    Eden,


                    I get all the postings from the Community sent to my email. 98% of them, including yours, don't show the email addresses.  I was going to write earlier that I didn't see any email addresses, but there are two people whose emails I see. I can let them know.


                    Here's how your message appears in my email.

                     

                    Best regards,


                    Mona

                     

                     

                    eden.png

                    • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
                      Jun 1, 2007
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Oct 11, 2010 12:53 PM (in response to mzeftel)
                      Re: Protect Your Privacy

                      Mona,

                      That was after I made the change to the display name.  This shows what it looked like before:

                      email.gif

                       

                      TTFN

                    • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
                      Jun 1, 2007
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Oct 11, 2010 1:08 PM (in response to mzeftel)
                      Re: Protect Your Privacy

                      While it's obvious that I wasn't sufficiently vigilant, I'n hardly alone in that regard.  I see roughly about 6% of the participants in this forum with email set to private, but their email addresses are revealed through their profile page URL. Philip has two profiles, both with email set to private, but one of them, possibly an older one, does show his email address in his profile URL.

                       

                      TTFN

                      • Philip.Oakley Silver 138 posts since
                        Jan 22, 2007
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Oct 12, 2010 8:13 AM (in response to superres)
                        Re: Protect Your Privacy

                        Trying to fix that now. The default is not sell set up.

                         

                        Perhaps Dan could send an email to those with a "@" in their name helping them with the instructions (which they otherwise won't find).

                         

                        Philip

                        • superres Silver 7,759 posts since
                          Jun 1, 2007
                          Currently Being Moderated
                          Oct 12, 2010 12:33 PM (in response to Philip.Oakley)
                          Re: Protect Your Privacy

                          Should be pretty easily doable; out of the 88 profiles I looked at, one had intentionally used their email as their communities display name, but 8 or 9 people had their emails set to private, but their profiles showed their email addresses.

                           

                          TTN

                • A.Non Diamond 10,147 posts since
                  May 11, 2010
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Oct 16, 2010 10:55 AM (in response to superres)
                  Re: Protect Your Privacy

                  GREAT! Look what i just received (reproduced entirely as a bitmap so that the text can't be found by searching, so the spammer doesn't get any advertising benefit):

                   

                  SPAM.gif

                   

                  NOTE THE FIRST LINE OF THE EMAIL!

                  http://communities.ptc.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/38-1286-7594/angry.gif

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